Talk:Sandman (Modern Warfare 3)
Untitled The Delta Force multiplayer smg character looks a lot like Sandman, anybody noticed? RC95 18:36, October 10, 2011 (UTC) pic where did that last pic come from (one with the hover craft in back)? 01:55, November 3, 2011 (UTC) Death and Status We never do see Sandman die. We can assume that he died, yes, but there also is a possibility he survived and is just pinned. Can we keep the status as Unknown for him and the Metal team? Roger Murtaugh 18:46, November 8, 2011 (UTC) I hear you, I'm calling it as M.I.A.User talk:Hammerhead18 12:35, December 6, 2011 (UTC) Oh, here we go. From what I can gather, having not played the game yet, the team is trapped inside a collapsed mine with little to no hope of rescue. That's a death sentence right there. 18:52, November 8, 2011 (UTC) :I'm not saying I like their chances. I'm not saying they're alive. In all terms of a status, Unknown would be the accurate choice. Roger Murtaugh 18:56, November 8, 2011 (UTC) :There's been an edit war on the regular Wikipedia for years regarding the fates of Vasquez, Griggs, and Gaz in Call of Duty 4. I don't see the point in keeping "unknown" if common sense logic heavily implies that they perish in the perilous siituations they did without the words K.I.A. being brightly lit like Las Vegas neons signs. Might as well make Yuri's fate "unknown" then as well. As it is, the diamond mine collapse and/or exploded, not to mention the helicopter pilot said something along the lines of "We're leaving or everyone's dead." Dibol 01:39, November 9, 2011 (UTC) ::Understandable. I just wanted a short discussion. I won't fight it. No need to be upset at all, if you are. I understand how other fans kept the fight going on and on, but I'll keep it as is unless the creators say different or another game proves different. Have a good night, guys. Roger Murtaugh 03:52, November 9, 2011 (UTC) ::No hard feelings held, Rog. I'm just giving you my perspective on this, and this is not the only Wiki to have this type of issue (i.e. the 24 and F.E.A.R. wikia)Dibol 04:10, November 9, 2011 (UTC) :::Eesh, I can imagine. I remember the Tony Almeida discussions, but that one did turn out in their favor. Nonetheless, I'll be looking for official response if I ever were to change anything. Take care, man. Roger Murtaugh 05:01, November 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::Not to pull this fight out, but this may be a hint at future possibilities. "Sandman also attempted to persuade the Osprey pilot to wait for Price, only for the effort to be in vain." It could be foreshadow, but it's obviously speculation. I won't change anything. ;) Roger Murtaugh 08:41, November 9, 2011 (UTC) :::::I don't really think "common sense" logic can apply here. Gaz and Griggs were clearly shot in MW1. Ghost was shot and burned. But seing how often characters can survive let's say Helicopter crashes, collapsing buildings or what ever, I don't think a crashing mine is sufficient enough to call Sandman's team dead. :::::I don't think we should keep their status as "dead" just because the first one came in here and declared them dead. :::::All I can see is Sandman and his team being left being left behind, some explosions and all in all it's more like a cliffhanger than the death of character (considering the deaths of other important characters in CoD). :::::I doubt we can decide wheter he's dead before the next Modern Warfare comes out (in case this was not the last). Alexastor 09:37, November 13, 2011 (UTC) :::::The most (correct) severe thing we can place under he status (along with the remainder of Delta in the mines) is "supposedly KIA", we never saw him die, the kill was never confirmed and they were not mentioned in the later mission as being dead (or at all, for that matter), therefore, we cannot say that he is KIA, as that would require us to know that he is dead. Characters like Soap and Yuri CAN be classed as KIA, since we saw them die (or recieve injuries that would kill them. Looking at you, Yuri) But Sandman was never seen to be killed, all we saw was a large cloud of smoke. For all we know, they could have survived the collapse. 20:40, November 13, 2011 (UTC) :::::I don't think Sandman survived, because if you remember the scene, he gets shot. He doesn't fall, or whatever, I'm not saying that, but he bloodloss and the mine coming down it's a sure death sentence, but that's just my opinionFloody 16 own's you 21:01, November 13, 2011 (UTC) Why don't we just list him as MIA. Come on, Price survived the Gulag. @Raven's Wing: You know Raven, I think your starting to be right up your own arse, there IS NO PROOF he is dead. The Chilean miners survived. It should be MIA. It aint up to you Raven. Lockupyourhamsters 22:03, December 17, 2011 (UTC) Lock up your hamsters, it FREDDIE STAR! : I never said it was. Besides, what are the chances that a team on a black operation that most people don't even know about, in an incredibly remote and inhospitable area, are going to be rescued before they starve? Keep in mind, in the example you cited, it took four months and $20Million to rescue them. 01:04, December 20, 2011 (UTC) :I heard Chilean miners and immediately came here. The miners weren't overwhelmed by a ton of angry russians, and the mine didn't collapsed ON them. If they even survived, there's no proof of even refference by the US president when he's doing to speech on the Dust to Dust cutscene.- 01:26, December 20, 2011 (UTC) I'd say it's 50/50. There are ways to survive a mine collapsing, and since Sandman was part of a special forces team, he probably received survival training on what to do in that type of situation. But then again, he did get shot, and there were a lot of angry Russians at the scene. So yeah. He might be alive, he might be dead. SpaceGhidorah 22:57, December 26, 2011 (UTC) Our wiki's consensus is dead until proven alive. Sgt. S.S. 21:45, December 30, 2011 (UTC) :You just made that up. 16:39, May 16, 2012 (UTC) Sandman has an appearence in CoD4 but the article doesn't say so. :No, he didn't. 21:20, March 4, 2012 (UTC) Oh, here we go. This is the whole "Ghost" story all over again. Look, try to have a diamond mine collapse on you, all while about 70 russians unload their assault rifles on you, then tell me if you survived or not. Commander Shepard: "You're just a machine, and machines can be broken!" 21:26, March 4, 2012 (UTC) When the rocks collapsed, they would have A) blocked the russians from reaching him and B) killed some of the russians. This does mean that Sandman could be KIA but we have got no proof. He is MIA until a character has his dog tags in his hand without Sandman himself. Doublekill10 12:30, April 11, 2013 (UTC) idea awsome idea with trivia!(i just saw sandmans) Someone should add this to trivia. Upon his introduction in Black Tueday, he tosses a mag to Frost. Second before his likley death he tosses one to Truck.-AARC Guys, don't you notice how Sandman's fate is similar to that of Wooda from Black Ops? Both end up dying so the guy who kills the antagonist (Dragovich/Makarov) lives to do the deed (Mason/Price). It's interesting to note that Sandman's voice actor, William Fichtner, played a Delta Operator named SFC Jeff Sanderson in Black Hawk Down. Added Trivia please... Sandman is the second NPC to use a throwing knife as we know Weaver is the first. It is shown on the mission Down The Rabbit Hole. If you look how big the colapse was there is no chance of survival guys. If he didnt get crushed, he would of died of lack of oxygen or through dust clogging up his lungs. It is pretty safe to say he and the others are dead. Nism100 23:29, February 11, 2012 (UTC) Lets just finish this argument here Okay lets just clear this up. If he wasn't killed by the rocks and boulders, the dust and ash would have made him suffocate and die all the same. We cannot speculate he is alive without evidence on a wikia page. A wikia page is for stuff we know, not stuff we can just guess happened. Infinity Ward made the scene giving the message he is dead and unless some new information comes out that changes the perspective we have been given, he IS dead. The game never says he is MIA or alive, the game just shows a scene in which he would die and he isn't seen or heard from again. The KIA status is suited in that case. Unless anyone can say anything that goes beyond speculation, that is how it will stay. 16:21, March 5, 2012 (UTC) :This is a case of 'Schrödinger's cat' we have no proff either way they are dead or alive, while it is hinted they are dead, there's nothing to say "yes, they are dead". 16:26, March 5, 2012 (UTC) the game showed us a scenario in a way that showed they are dead. Infinity ward showed us a scene in such a way to show that yes, they do die and there is more going for them being dead, the fact thats how it is being portrayed being one of them , to only speculation they are alive. Are they seen again after their supposed death? no. Are they mentioned as alive in game? no. Is there any actual evidence to say that yes they are alive despite being percived by the game as being dead? no. There for he is dead. Simple as that guys. Dont like it, go play the game and find something more than speculation to say otherwise. Nism100 18:43, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :But does the game say that they are KIA? NO IT DOESN'T. We have NO way to know if he's MIA or KIA. --Doublekill10 (talk) 08:22, December 1, 2012 (UTC) Reason for sacrifice Seeing how most people don't seem to understand why Sandman sacrificed himself, here is the most logical reason. Didn't want to slow Price down? Nope. Wanted to be a hero? Nope. Wanted to hold back the Russians? Nope. The most logical reason is listed; The helicopted had 4 seats. What? Price+Yuri+V.+Sandman=4!!!! You're forgetting one thing, two actually. Truck and Grinch. With no room, they would be left for dead. Although not verbally said, it makes the most sence that he stuck behind to not be the man who cowered out and left his men to die. They could have made room. It's not musical chairs. They stayed to cover them as if the enemy didn't shoot at them they would ALL be killed. Simple walking backwards while covering, like in the part where Yuri is rescued by Price, would have been just as effective. Also, I can't say I have experience with it, but I REALLY doubt its easy to stand in a helicopted with the doors open while rapidly accelerating upwards. Plus, the enemy was shooting at the helicopter, just with RPGs instead of bullets. Except Blackhawks can carry 14 people, not four. 16:26, May 16, 2012 (UTC) OK, think of it like this: This is (most likely) the last MW game. They don't need to carry new characters over. At the same time, the trio were good characters so they didn't want to give them some stupid death, plus Dust to Dust would be a bit croweded with 5 Juggernauts (Assuming Sandman would aid Price in Makarov's death). They're not going to be given a death of being too late to get in the helicopter, because as that guy up there said, its not musical chairs. It gave them dignity to stay behind and leave no man behind then just Sandman being ignorant and refusing to go in (although the RPG did force the pilot to leave, before that Sandman was already telling Price to just leave). U do know they could sit on the edge right? Have u not been playing the game and watching how they are seated on the scout helos? Firstly sign your posts please. Secondly they could have easily fitted all of them on. They could sit on the edge, on the floor and so on. They could have managed. But look how many people were overunning their position, it was clear if they all tried to get in they would all die. It was better for them to give cover fire whilst everyone gets in and see if they could get in themselves, at which point there was no time. Nism100 (talk) 09:17, August 1, 2012 (UTC) Sandman in mw2 Ok this could be the sandman from mw3 in mw2 or it could be a reference to navy seals fireteam bravo. But ask yourself how does price know sandman so good? He had to have had past mission experience with him so this could be him. Some people say it couldn't because he is a commander in delta, well he is not, he is a team leader and a master sergeant and don't forget you can rank up in the military, it is not like you just switch units and get deranked or stay the same you can actually rank up, and since delta force is the most elite he was probably promoted when he switched 04:34, June 15, 2012 (UTC)ME Sandman'hair is blonde?He is not woman.SgtRL-3 09:51, June 23, 2012 (UTC) Hold on a sec. If Sandman stayed to cover Price and Yuri, then surely Price could have covered HIM, because Black Hawks usually have mounted M134s. Doublekill10 12:34, April 11, 2013 (UTC) Name Can we get rid of the (Modern Warfare 3) part of the page name. There are no other people named sandman and the only other sandman is the face paint, which has (facepaint) on the end of it.